On this episode of Free Range, Mike Livermore is joined by Emma Marris, an award-winning environmental writer and author of Wild Souls: Freedom and Flourishing in the Non-human World. (0:00-1:26)
The two begin the discussion by analyzing how nature is defined and valued. Marris critiques the concept of nature; for her, there is no “unspoiled” nature free from human influence, and the idea is associated with colonialist efforts to deny rights to indigenous communities. Marris contrasts the concept of nature with wilderness, which emphasizes the autonomy of non-human animals.
The subject of wild animal suffering has seen increasing focus in animal welfare circles. Marris was drawn to the subject when observing certain conservation practices, especially concerning so-called “invasive species.” Many of these practices involve killing wild animals, and she saw that there were difficult moral questions that were often ignored. (1:47-18:40)
The conversation moves into the ethics of zoos. Marris believes zoos are unethical as they stand today, even though they have positioned themselves as conservation organizations. While some zoos run breeding programs for endangered species and encourage the public to care more about wild animals, animals endure a lot of suffering in most institutions. When considering the ethics of zoos, one important question is whether and how the notion of animal autonomy is relevant. (18:41-30:39)
Zoos and hunting present quite different questions concerning wild animal suffering. For Marris, hunting can be conducted in many different ways, with some being ethical and some not. The two discuss how the attitude of the hunter may or may not matter in the moral calculus. (30:40-43:35)
Switching to a more overarching conversation about the ethics of food consumption, Marris notes that simply existing in the modern world requires the consumption of goods that had a production process that at some point harmed another group. She also raises the question of why we should even care about nature, biodiversity, animals, etc. in general. It is difficult to describe exactly what we value. Livermore notes that the field of environmental ethics is relatively new in human moral discourse, so it isn’t very surprising that there are many open questions. (43:35-50:14)
For the remainder of the podcast, Livermore and Marris discuss the paradox of life and suffering. The fundamental truth of nature is that life cannot occur without suffering and ecosystems would not exist without death. While Marris believes that this issue can never be resolved, she is attracted to the views of philosopher Val Plumwood, who argued that we need to hold reconcilable values at the same time. In order to live, we all want to consume energy but it is impossible to do so while keeping everything alive, vibrant, and diverse. (50:15-57:11)
Tag Archives: ecology
Season 1, Episode 21
On this episode of Free Range, Michael Livermore speaks with Matthew Burtner, a Professor of Compositions and Computer Technologies in the music department at the University of Virginia. Burtner’s work explores ecology and the aesthetic link between human expression and environmental systems. His latest album is Ice Field.
Burtner begins by discussion how his music tries to decenter humans. (0:51-2:29) After listeners hear a snippet from the title track, Livermore inquires about the physical logistics of how he recorded this track. (3:58 – 8:13) Burtner recalls the improvisation he did while on the ice field and describes how environmental music appreciating a new kind of beauty. (8:21 – 11:55) He goes on to explains his commitment to understanding these natural systems as independent forms of aesthetics. (12:00 – 17:30)
Burtner describes how he uses sonification to translate environmental data into sounds. He describes how sonification allows us to listen to sounds new kind of sounds, like light reflecting off waves, and to transpose temporality by taking decades worth of data and turning it into a musical phrase we can perceive. On Ice Field, two of his works use sonification, “Ice Prints” which uses ice extent data from the Arctic and is mapped into piano music and “Sonification of an Arctic Lagoon.” (17:32 – 21:20) A snippet of his track “Sonification of an Arctic Lagoon” is played. This piece takes different layers of data and creates musical sounds, this 4-minute piece is 1-year worth of data mapped into musical form. (21:21 – 23:29)
Livermore and Burtner discuss the differences between sonification and a more common impressionism approach to relating music to the natural environment. Burtner explains how data is not always what he may want it to sound like and may not be satisfying as music. He explains that you can either try to change the data, which won’t represent the system anymore, or listen to it and find the beauty. (23:31 – 29:05)
Burtner discusses different approaches to eco-acoustic music: presenting environmental data as sound (sonification), field recording natural sounds (soundscaping), and using natural features as instruments in human-environment interactions. Livermore and Burtner discuss the different technologies used in these techniques and how they are theorized. (29:15 – 36:44)
Burtner delves into his favorite examples of soundscape field recording that he has done, playing snippets of both. (36:46 – 41:53) Burtner explains that these recordings transpose our listening outside of our human centered perception. (42:00 – 46:26)
Livermore poses a question about aesthetics theory and how the relationship between the deep tradition we inherit affects our way of appreciating these types of music. Burtner explains that knowledge helps open up the world to different dimensions of aesthetics; that it becomes richer the more he learns. (46:30 – 51:26) Burtner discusses how environmental politics has unintentionally played a role with his music and that he appreciates that his music can be a part of that type of discourse. (51:27 – 55:43)
With climate change already happening, Livermore asks how much of Burtner’s work is coming to terms with these inevitable changes; Is it mourning, celebration, or are they entangled? Burtner describes that art has always given us a place to deal with tragedy, that music gives us a space to mourn. He explains that inside all of these tragedies are modes of sustainability and restoration; they don’t always have to be about loss. (55:44 – 1:00:57)
Livermore ends the episode inquiring about how listeners should approach and interact with these conceptual pieces at different layers. Burtner describes that the music is designed to be understood on its own and on another level as conceptual art. He hopes that it can be a multifaceted experience of listening. (1:01:03 – 1:05:43)
Season 1, Episode 8
On this episode of Free Range, Mike Livermore speaks with Karen Bradshaw, a Professor of Law and the Mary Sigler Research Fellow at Arizona State University’s Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law. Bradshaw’s work examines the intersection of environmental law and property law. Her most recent book, Wildlife as Property Owners: A New Conception of Animal Rights, contends that property rights can be a useful tool in the protection of endangered wildlife.
Bradshaw begins by providing a summation of the central argument of her book, and explaining how the conclusions she comes to are, in fact, a continuation of trends that have been gaining legitimacy in both property rights law and trusts and estates law. She also describes how many of the ideas discussed in the book were well-established in non-Western legal systems and property regimes, such as those of many pre-colonial indigenous communities. This would constitute an expansion of the original understanding of environmental law as it was conceived in the 1970s (:55 – 10:04).
The conversation then focuses on what steps the United States government, which owns nearly a third of the country’s land area, could take to ensure that wildlife interests are adequately protected against future land takings. Bradshaw describes the process through which the status quo could be changed, so that property can, in fact, be owned by animals and managed on their behalf. Bradshaw argues that the understanding of who (or what) has a right to own property is in constant evolution, and much of the publicly-owned land in the United States is already being managed for the benefit of animals. This part of the discussion incorporates a variety of legal concepts, including conservation easements and the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment (10:13 – 30:14).
This leads to questions about how the legal system would define ownership, and what sorts of natural entities would be entitled to ownership rights. Bradshaw claims that the example offered by approaches to animal rights within the context of the high seas — areas of the ocean outside national boundaries — might be indicative of the path to take within national boundaries. Bradshaw also talks about her own experience with this issue, as she is in the process of titling her own property to incorporate the animals that live on it (30:20 – 37:12).
Using her firsthand experience as a reference point, Bradshaw compares the animal-ownership regime with more traditional means of protecting land for wildlife, such as donation to a conservation trust, emphasizing the importance of a move away from anthropocentric understandings of land ownership. This leads to a more in-depth discussion of the legal responsibilities and practical realities of managing animal-owned land (37:40 – 55:40).
The conversation concludes with a broad discussion about how we approach animals generally, touching on such ideas as whether blue jays have an easement to the trees in someone’s backyard and the extent to which prairie dogs are able to speak, rather than simply communicate, with one another (55:50 – 1:06:53).
Season 1, Episode 6
Today on Free Range, Mike Livermore discusses coastal preservation with Karen McGlathery. McGlathery is a professor at the University of Virginia’s Department of Environmental Sciences and the Director of UVA’s Environmental Resilience Institute. McGlathery’s work centers on coastal ecosystems and the discussion today covers a number of different topics related to climate change and coastal communities.
McGlathery begins by discussing her path to becoming an environmental scientist (:55 – 4:00). She then outlines the work being done at the University of Virginia’s Resilience Institute, including explaining what the term “resilience” means in the context of the environmental sciences, and how the institute works on issues related to climate change (4:10 – 7:57).
McGlathery discusses one of the institute’s recent projects, which examines the effects of coastal storms on flooding patterns, saltwater contamination of fresh water sources, and how this impacts water sustainability. The project, which is based on Virginia’s Eastern Shore, reflects the institute’s interdisciplinary approach by including not just university-based scientists but also local community organizers and faith-based leaders (8:05 – 16:22).
This segues to a discussion about what kinds of futures are envisioned for coastal communities, such as coastal restoration or retreat inland. This leads to a discussion of what role the concept of equity plays in these considerations, and how rising sea levels may lead to difficult decisions in this regard, particularly as so many coastal communities have based their economies on access to the coast (17:30 – 27:00).
The focus of the conversation then shifts to one of McGlathery’s primary areas of expertise — coastal ecosystems and their importance in the fight against catastrophic climate change. McGlathery goes over both the positive and negative aspects of these “blue carbon sinks,” which include seagrass meadows, mangroves, and marshlands, and signals the way in which these areas may be used by entities to falsely claim they are carbon-neutral (27:20 – 38:35).
This leads to an explanation of the process through which scientists measure the amount of carbon a carbon sink is able to remove from the atmosphere. This part of the discussion expands the conversation’s focus to incorporate questions about whether environmental policy decisions can keep up with the realities of climate change (38:40 – 50:21).
Finally, the conversation touches on the costs associated with coastal preservation and how those costs may rise in the future, making it more difficult to justify them among the public (50:25 – 59:40).
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