Tag Archives: poverty

Season 1, Episode 27

Transcription

On this episode of Free Range, Mike Livermore interviews Gerald Torres, a professor at the Yale School of the Environment and Yale Law School and Director of the Yale Center for Environmental Justice. Torres explores the connections between environmental law and social justice from a scholarly and practical perspective.

The discussion begins with the Yale Center of Environmental Justice and its efforts to link together environmental justice initiatives across the university and community, including with local Native American tribes . (0:53 – 8:02) This raises the question of how to define work that relates to environmental justice. (8:06 – 14:11) This issue partly implicates whether environmental justice issues are a subset of a broader set of social justice claims or if they are distinctive from other areas. For Torres, one distinction is that the environment requires a broader and deeper perspective. (14:15 – 19:30) Another distinction is the focus of the EJ community on governmental decision making processes. (19:35 – 23:39)

The conversation turns to Bill Clinton’s Executive Order 12898 on environmental justice. Torres explains how the Executive Order attempted to create definitions of environmental justice communities and told agencies to incorporate environmental justice concerns in their basic processes. He compares the results of the executive order to the National Environmental Policy Act, which also had an emphasis on improving decision-making. (23:40 – 29:00) Torres emphasizes that the Executive Order responded to a broader social movement that grew out of social activism and communities mobilizing together. (29:01 – 30:57)

Livermore and Torres then discuss the relationship between environmental justice and political polarization over environmental issues. They reflect on the former bipartisan history of environmental protection and conservation and how opposition to environmentalism in the Republican party has grown increasingly intense in recent years. (31:00 – 39:00) Torres worries that the partisan nature of this debate will obscure the environmental successes that have been achieved over the last two generations. (39:01 – 43:48)

A current tension in environmental law is between local impacts of transitioning to clean energy and the need to decarbonize the economy. Torres explains the common complaint that procedural parts of environmental protection slow down decision-making, which increases the cost or permanently delays projects. But these statutes also protect the voice of disadvantaged groups. They discuss how net metering disputes in California have raised important justice issues as well. (43:50 – 54:00).

Torres reflects on the question of how well the current environmental movement has responded to EJ concerns. Torres, who is a trustee for Natural Resources Defense Council and is on the board for Earth Day, says both of these organizations have recognized the importance of integrating environmental justice concerns in the way they think about the environment. (54:02 – 57:45)

The conversation closes with Livermore asking Torres what makes him hopeful in light of the environmental challenges we face. Torres states that the broad recognition that we have to act on these issues, the social commitment in many places to environmental education, and his experience working with environmental justice communities have given him hope. (57:47 – 1:00:52)

Season 1, Episode 24

Transcription

On this episode of Free Range, Mike Livermore speaks with Michelle Wilde Anderson, a law professor at Stanford. Anderson is the author of The Fight To Save The Town: Reimagining Discarded America, published in June 2022.
Anderson begins by explaining the subtitle of the book, which draws attention to places that have both high poverty and few governmental resources, challenges that tend to be mutually reinforcing. Anderson discusses the reasons she chose the four places that the book focuses on: they’re exceptional places in terms of rich histories and good leadership, they contribute to a larger story when studied together because of their highlighted differences, and they represent the larger range of towns facing the problem of being poor and broke. (1:17 – 5:28)

Livermore asks Anderson, why she decided to focus on narratives rather than data and policy solutions. Anderson explains that the dominant stories that we tell about these places typically include violence, corruption, and hopelessness. These narratives are destructive to the political will to keep working on these hard problems. She wanted to acknowledge that the hardships are devastating and real, but there are also extraordinary people working on these problems and we can’t wish these places away. (5:29 – 9:40)

Anderson highlights a common way of thinking which she considers the “suitcases solution,” which encourages individuals to move towards growth and jobs to solve chronic poverty. Anderson argues that this has been a failed approach. Ideally, people would have options: to move on to opportunity, or to stay where they are without being trapped in intergenerational poverty.

A major challenge in many of these places is trust. This is especially destructive because poverty requires communities to come together. This is where the other part of the title of the book comes in, The Fight To Save The Town; it highlights how people can weave society back together and rebuild this basic trust.. (9:41 – 24:59)

A problem with the suitcase solution is that people end up unable to move because they lack resources or become traumatized before that becomes a possibility. The experiment of addressing deindustrialization through domestic migration has been tried for the past 40 years and doesn’t work. (25:00 – 34:16) Livermore and Anderson highlight the importance of a town building the foundation for people to participate in the labor market. (34:17 – 41:25)

Livermore asks Anderson about the redevelopment approach in contrast with investing in current residents. Anderson mentions that local public policy is often focused on downtown redevelopment. Anderson encourages pushing aside those kinds of interventions and investing in the people of the town. (41:26 – 49:58)

In regards to these different towns, Livermore asks: Are there broader lessons or general principles that can be implemented in a more systematic way? Anderson responds that she is not confident in a playbook for this resident-centered government or that it even exists. People who work on the frontline of the challenges rarely believe that it is possible to export their model to another town. Anderson emphasizes the importance of mutual aid, social repair, and social cooperation as a universal component of both progress and hope. (49:59 – 56:27)

To conclude, Livermore inquires about Anderson’s thoughts on the relationship between problems of the contemporary era and labor history in the United States. Anderson responds by noting that there are few periods in our history where we have had an explicit language to discuss poverty and a focus on empowerment, solidarity, and progress. The Labor Movement is one example of this language and leadership in writing. She claims that she is drawn to these individuals who discuss poverty as a source of strength and solidarity and who believe in the power of people. (56:28 – 1:00:47)